Ok guys this subject has come up before. I wish to buy a lightweight small camera to have handy at all times when the Canon EOS 500N is tucked away in the hotel safe. Now I need advice !!! from those who own a second teeny weeny camera . Did think a Canon ELF would fit the bill however I have been told because it has different a film system the pictures will not be as sharp as 35mm I use with my SLR Canon. Any travellers who have got it right in this department I would be grateful to hear from. There are so many times when I am sure we all say "I WISH I HAD MY CAMERA WITH ME"

I have heard bad things about the Elf cameras if they are the APS ones. Pro photographers call it the Amatuer Photo System. It is a smaller film format and inferior to 35mm. I have an Olympus Stylus Epic . . . small enough to fit in my jeans pocket and it takes very sharp pictures. I think they are as good or better than ones taken with my much more expensive Pentax 35mm. This year the Olympus will be my only still camera for traveling as I don't want to lug a large SLR type of camera.

AUSSIECOL,

Excellent question. This was discussed a good bit last year. Here are links to a number of discussions. A number of them have links to other resources on the web.

APS Cameras http://www.trafbb.com/cgi/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=9&t=000007

Point & Shoot Advice http://www.trafbb.com/cgi/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=9&t=000014

Buying a 2nd Camera http://www.trafbb.com/cgi/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=9&t=000021

Help with Basic Question http://www.trafbb.com/cgi/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=9&t=000022

4agenela4:Pentax Espio?? http://www.trafbb.com/cgi/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=9&t=000015

There may well be other discussions I missed, but these jumped out at me. Change your view in the Photography forum to "Show all topics" and you may find other discussions. If you've got more questions after you've had a chance to look over the old (and quite extensive) discussions, let us know. (Just don't expect us to all agree on the answers .)

Mike W.

AUSSIECOL,

Just had a thought. What's your time frame on purchasing? If you've got months to go, I'll have a chance to report on my experiences. On our last trip (2000) I took nothing but an SLR & lenses (okay, and some clothes ). This time, I'll also take a small point and shoot (Contax T3). We get back July 6th or so. If this is within your time frame, I'll be able to let you know how that particular camera works out.

Mike W.

To Michael Williamson:
You mentioned on your post that you take a 35mm SLR and lenses. I've got an old Pentax K-1000 with a 70-200mm zoom and I'm debating taking the zoom lens with me to Italy in early July.
All the info on the board seems to be centred on small compact (easily hidden) cameras so the "gypsies" won't have the opportunity to carry it off.
What has been you experience of travelling with multiple lenses?
Thanks for your help and enjoy your journeys.
Don

Michael Williamson
Thanks to you and everyone who has posted. We do'nt go until September so will not be purchasing second Camera until round August so will wait to hear how you go with the smaller camera you are taking - Have not heard of that brand in Australia though do they have another name overseas ?
Aussie Col

Just putting in my 2 cents worth.........I did 2 back to back tours last year, 60 days total. I used 70 rolls of APS film and 95% of them turned out great! The rest were human error (me) I've got 6 large albums full and even some of the 5% are in there. They were good enough for an interesting story. "But there really is a beautiful mountain behind that tree that just whizzed by as I took the picture!!"

It's been almost a year and I am still trying to get them posted online so everyone can see them. Maybe someday!

Later,
Archie

Don,

Sorry to be so long in getting back to you. Do you have other lenses besides the 70-200 zoom? On our trip to Italy & Greece in 2000, one of the lenses I took was a 70-210. The only time I used it was for a few night exposures mounted on a mini-tripod from our hotel in Assisi. They weren't worth keeping (but not because of the lens). Other than that, the lens wasn't used at all. Here's what I took & what got used:

24mm f2.8 - used a little (less than a dozen shots out of about 1000 taken) - too wide for me
35mm f2 - used about 10% of the time by a daughter, 0% by me
35-70mm f3.5-4.5, used 90% of the time by a daughter, 0% by me
50mm f1.2 - used 40% of the time by me (including 100% of indoors pictures)
35-105mm f3.5-4.5 - used 60% of the time by me (including 95+% of the outdoors pictures)
70-210mm f4-5.6 - as mentioned above

Churches, museums, etc. in Italy generally forbid the use of flash. A fast lens is a lifesaver. Fast zooms (f2.8) are generally big and heavy. Fast primes (f2 & faster) are a lifesaver. If I could take only one lens (and knew I would be taking a lot of low light indoors pictures), I personally would take a 35 or 50mm.

Traveling with multiple lenses can be done, just don't take too many. The hard part for me was (and is) deciding which lenses to take. My daughter kept one on the camera I loaned her. I generally kept 3 lenses on me, usually the 50mm, the 24mm, and the 35-105mm. I wore a photo vest and stored the two extra lenses in inside pockets. I left my other lenses in a backpack on the bus. I did not carry (or take) a camera bag. We're taking the Switzerland & Austria tour this summer and deciding which cameras to take as well as lenses is again a chore. A zoom is convenient, but I'm strongly leaning toward just taking primes this time. I'll also probably take a spare SLR body as well as my Contax Point & Shoot. I must change my mind about the mix to take several times a week.

You'll really enjoy your trip to Italy. It's a beautiful country. Have fun!

Mike

Aussie Col,

As far as I know the Contax T3 uses the same name world wide. Contax was a German camera manufacturer. They (or their name) was purchased by Kyocera (Japan) some years back. This camera really takes good pictures (but like every P&S, the flash isn't so great). Unless you're in a very large city, you may never see a Contax for sale. I got mine while on a trip to Dallas. Another small camera that is very nice (and, unlike the Contax, inexpensive) is the Olympus Stylus Epic. I believe it's named mju-II out your way. The lens is a fixed 35mm f2.8, so for a Point & Shoot, it is very fast. It also has a spot meter. My then twelve-year-old son used one back in 2000. Many of his pictures were as good as any I took with my SLR. At around $100US (or less), it's a good deal. The smallest 35mm zoom that I hear (or read) lots of folks raving about is the Konica Lexio 70. It has a 28-70mm lens. I just purchased a (used) 28-70 Minolta Freedom Explorer on eBay and will test it out later this month. I might give it to my son to use in conjunction with his Stylus Epic. I will definitely let you (and everyone else) know after the trip how things worked out.

Mike

MIKE
Please explain !!! whats a "spot meter"
Thanks Aussie Col

Aussie Col,

Spot meter huh? Well, if you need to ask, you definitely don't need to use one. Mainly just kidding there but a little bit serious too. Unless you're using a completely manual camera (which your Canon definitely isn't), one of the things your camera is doing for you is calculating the exposure. It may use that calculation to automatically set the f-stop & shutter speed, or you might set one and the camera automatically set the other based on the exposure calculation. A good question is whether the exposure calculated is correct. An averaging type meter will average the light in the scene to be photographed. If what you're really interested in is in a small part of the scene and is in the shade while everything else is brightly lit, the average will probably mean that your subject will be underexposed. Someone with that type of camera meter who could set both aperature and shutter speed would (with practice) know to "open up" (overexpose according to the camera meter) to compensate. If the opposite were the case, such a person might know to "stop down" (underexpose according to the camera meter). Some camera meters are center-weighted. More weight is given to objects in the center of the picture so that they are more likely to be exposed correctly. More recent cameras (I know Canon to some extent and Nikon to a large extent) look at several areas of the scene in order to calculate the exposure. A spot meter is like center-weighted metering except that it takes its exposure reading ONLY from a small spot in the middle of the scene. You point at that spot and meter from it. Knock on wood, that area (which must be the most important of the picture to you) will come out exposed correctly. While I mentioned that the Olympus does have a spot meter, it is not automatically engaged. I believe you've got to press a couple of buttons at the same time to turn it on. I think it also locks both the focus and the exposure when you press half way down on the shutter release. There's a lot more to spot metering and exposure in general than I've mentioned. To (probably) make things a little more confusing, you may not know that your camera's meter reads everything as a middle gray tone. If you meter off something black, a black & white picture would make that gray (so it is overexposed). If you meter off something white, a black & white picture would make that gray (so it is underexposed). In color, green grass is approximately middle gray, so spot metering off a green area should make things look right (as in dark things actually dark and light things actually light, if that is what you want). I've probably said both too little and too much about this middle gray (18% gray it is called) business. There are countless books out there that go into a great deal of detail if you want more info. At any rate, I hope you now have some understanding of what a spot meter is (and why I said you might not want to use one).

Mike

To Michael:
Thanks for the info on the use of your lenses. I’ve also got the 50mm f2 that came with the body. I use this almost all the time, too, but for some scenes and details of buildings I like the telephoto. It helps to get closer to the small statues along the roof lines of the cathedrals etc.
Your latest on the spot meter was quite good and precise. The use of automatic cameras has never thrilled me, which is why I stick with the semi-manual Pentax.
A fellow I knew showed me his Minolta fully automatic camera could take pictures in a dark room but couldn’t understand why the pictures turned out blurry. It took a few minutes of explaining that the camera DIDN'T tell him he had to leave the shutter open for 30-40 seconds, which would require a tripod and no motion whatsoever in order to get a clear picture.
He wasn't so enamoured with his modern piece of electronics after that.
Now, of course, the question centres around digital. I guess that’ll be my next move. I can then play with the output on the computer.
Thanks again for your help, sounds you’ve take a few pictures in the past.
Don

Michael:
I should also add, that following the advice to the Fuji-Kodak thread, I took both films on a recent weekend camp training course and shot both rolls. The Fuji colours do indeed seem richer and closer to true colour. There seems to a slight red shift in the kodak. But who gets that picky - right?
Don