There has been a lot of P&S discussion lately (film advice, red-eye, zoom advice). I came across this site today. It contains some answers to common P&S questions. Most of the advice would apply to APS as well as 35mm. http://www.geocities.com/jpmccormac/tips.html

He also has some brief reviews of some P&S zoom cameras here. http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Vines/9273/pscam.html

For the APS question ("Should I get an APS camera?"), here's a link. It has opinions both ways (starting out against) and then has scores of comments from APS users. If you're really seriously considering APS, read the comments. I've read most of them. http://www.photo.net/photo/aps.html
Some of the comments get a little heated (which makes it all the more interesting). For those who don't have the time to read all the postings, here are some representative pro-APS comments:

1. The main idea behind an APS camera is that it is idiot-proof and it takes fantastic vacation pictures in sizes like 4x6", 4x7", or even 4x12".

2. If you want to fill up photo books and send 4"x or 5"x prints to relatives, APS is for you. If you tend to be caught without a camera, APS is for you.

3. For those out there who just aren't listening-- APS IS NOT INTENDED FOR THE PROFESSIONAL MARKET. I've been selling cameras for quite a few years now (all formats), and I'm firmly convinced that once a customer has identified him or herself as a point and shoot photographer, APS is the camera to buy.

4. Comments comparing the quality of pictures from a $100 35mm P&S to a $300 Canon Elph are very unfair. A $100 Olympus Stylus Epic with a 35/2.8 lens is certainly going to take better pictures than an Elph with a slow zoom. If, however, a comparison is made between the results from a $100 Olympus Stylus and a $120 Elph Jr., with similar film, the quality is very much the same. APS is probably not a viable replacement for 35mm for the enthusiast or professional, but for the average consumer, it is quite possibly a superior alternative to 35mm.

5. I've been shooting 35mm for 20+ years. I just got a Canon Elph Jr. APS camera. I love it. It is tiny and the results with standard size prints aren't noticably different from 35mm. If you want to make wall-sized enlargements, the difference is there--but if you want to do that, why are you messing with 35mm instead of medium or large format?.....That said, I've seen results from other people's APS cameras (Revio Zoom and so forth) and they're nowhere near as good. The lens is maybe more important than it is with a 35mm neg, because of the higher magnification. The Elph Jr. has quite a good lens, and it's not a zoom, and it's relatively fast (f/2.8) which means faster shutter speeds and less blur from camera shake. It also has more AF steps than most other models (beware of the inferior Elph LT). So I'd say if you go APS, get a good non-zoom model with accurate AF, or an SLR.

6. Just would like to say that I didn't have any success with APS P&S, UNTIL I switched to 400 speed film. Before I was using 200 speed APS and my pictures lacked sharpness and were washed out. I was really wondering what I was doing wrong until I stumbled across something that made all the difference. The problems were coming from too slow of film being used (small aperture zoom camera; especially at those longer focal lengths). And me being a person who only used SLR's, I thought 100 speed or less was the only way to sharp, rich-color pictures; I was wrong.

Here are some representative anti-APS comments:

1. I've read many reviews about APS, some favorable, most not so favorable. I've also seen print comparrisions from top of the line Canon and Nikon APS compared to low end point and shoot 35mm camera's. I am 100% convinced that a cheap $50 35mm point and shoot camera produces better quality prints of ANY size over the $500-$600 high end APS cameras!!! A picture tells a thousand words!! Bottom line, APS sucks, unless you have no eye for photography!

2. After reading the posts, I bought a popular and rather expensive APS Camera. After shooting 5 rolls, I returned it. I thought that the quality of the pictures was terrible. The focus was more often than not way off and never sharp. The lack of resolution is evident in the pictures themselves - you don't need to enlarge the pictures to see it.

3. The bottom line? If you're satisfied with it, good for you! APS is a wonderful format for people who are not absoloutely concerned with getting razor-sharp pictures. However, when it comes to APS cameras, you do get what you pay for.

There were a lot more positives than negatives posted. The negatives seemed to decline with time (the postings range from 1997 through this year). A common theme did seem to be that the more expensive APS cameras (particularly the SLR models) took better pictures than the less expensive APS models.

Hope this helps someone.

Mike

What wonderful information you've given! I plan to look further into some of the websites you've posted. I am one of those "point and shoot" folks, and selected a Nikon Lite Touch 120 ED/QD with a panoramic switch. I decided against the APS cameras because the film and developing would have cost more. I'm now banging my head against the wall for not having used 400 speed film after having taken 41 rolls of film in our last tour! (I used 200 speed) Like you, I learned the hard way...thanks for the valuable information.

Thanks very much for the info!
Teri

Thanks Michael,

Some great info.

Angela

Hi Mike
Personally I prefer SLR's if adjusted properly they can also be used as a P&S.
Also everyone needs to think ahead a little. Like "What do I want to do with these pictures?"
If the answer is to place them in a scrap book. The most any medium speed film will work. Personally I use 400 ASA most of the time.
However if you think there may be a possibility that you may want to enlarge the picture. The slower speed film is best. I doubt you will want porait quality enlargements so stay away from anything slower 100 ASA. However a picture taken with 400 ASA film or faster, becomes grainy the larger it is blown up. For instance 400 ASA is starting to get grainy when enlarged to 8x10.
Also remember the lower the light you will be shooting in, the faster the speed of the film you want.
The last thing to remember, a flash is only good out to about 15ft.
MikeM

[This message has been edited by MikeM (edited March 10, 2001).]

Ok everyone....Im totally naive and confused about cameras. I had a Fuji Discovery Panorama 312 zoom w/ Panorama for my last trip and it drove me mad. It has this little wheel dealy that you have to figure out the focus for the lighting etc. (hope someone knows what I'm talking about!) and besides that the camera was heavy. So just bought a Fuji Discovery...270 w/ Panorama and I think I like this one better. Now I"m off to Egypt in a few weeks...should I use 200 film or 400??? I used 400 for Spain w/ the 312 and lots of my pics are dark, blurry, grainy and not that good. Now it may the operator but just thought I'd ask for your opinions. Thanks!

Leanna,

I'm not familiar with the Fuji cameras, so I can't comment about them (short of providing a link to review sites). My standard advice for Point & Shoot cameras is to use 400 speed film, but that may not apply in Egypt. Someone who has been there can probably give you better advice. If you're shooting indoors and can't use flash, 400 generally does the trick. I'm picturing Egypt as really sunny and bright. 400 will work outside, but 200 (or even 100) will generally have better grain, etc. Do you know what the max f-stop is on the new camera? That might make a difference in film advice.

As far as the problems you had in Spain:
blurry - could be you, could be the camera, suppose it could even be the film processor/printer. Looking at the negatives might eliminate (or condemn) the film printer, but you'll need magnification to see.
grainy - What film were you using? Fuji? Kodak? Store brand? Did you only shoot in Panorama mode?
dark - Assuming the camera is automatic, could have been the camera. Could also be your film processor/printer.

Any chance you packed your film in checked luggage and the x-rays messed it up? I've never seen pictures from x-ray damaged film, so I can't say exactly what it does to your colors, etc.

Absolutely positively, buy some film, shoot some pictures NOW, and get them printed NOW. Given the disappointment with your Spain pictures, you want to avoid having that problem again. Since you're leaving soon, you need to get this settled as soon as possible.

For what it's worth, my understanding is that if you shoot with Panorama on 35mm film, all that happens is that less of the negative gets exposed (like a band at the bottom instead of the whole negative so you'll have panorama dimensions.) When the print is made, you're enlarging from essentially a smaller negative, so grain may be more noticeable. I'm also not clear as to whether all processors can even handle making Panorama prints from 35mm, especially if some shots are "normal" and others are panorama.

If you don't get any responses from someone who has been to Egypt and can comment on film speed, consider starting a new topic as they might not be reading the Point & Shoot Advice topic.

Mike

[This message has been edited by Michael Williamson (edited March 12, 2001).]

Hello Mike,
I just had to respond on this thread...I was SO DISAPPOINTED in the turnout of my greatly-anticipated photos. Using a new camera was one of the problems, that is for sure! Our tour had a LOT of picture-taking after dark (which I did not know beforehand, or I would
ve gotten 800 speed film for that purpose...right?) such as the cruise from the Seine River, the Eiffel Tower (STUPID, STUPID ME insisted on using my camera's nightime option which I think CAUSED EVEN more problems since it recommends using a tripod in that specific mode (right, like we're going to drag around a tripod the whole time? - but still) and all my night pictures have all these streakings of light. BOO HOO! There goes all my nighttime pictures...down the drain!

I have NEVER had a problem with using store-quality film...I used the Target brand. I really think it's not the film, but WHO does the developing. I was so surprised when my 41 rolls of film were returned the VERY NEXT DAY...and I was quite disappointed in the color/sharpness quality of them! In fact, I'm STILL waiting on them (after 2 weeks!) to get them redone at the 1-hour development place on site. I initially sent them out, and when I complained that I felt that the color was poor on some of the pictures, the guy at that time offered to redo one roll on site. Upon further inspection, we realized that the on-site redoing were indeed better! (but NOT all of them!) This same guy recommended we use 400 speed film next time. Okay, I'm going back to banging my head against the wall...

Trojan,

I feel your pain . If you're going to be shooting after dark, there's not a whole lot you can do (as a tourist). Going to ASA 800 speed film will gain you one f-stop over ASA 400, so you could maintain the same f-stop and have a shutter speed twice as fast. That might help some with the streaks (caused by camera movement during exposure, I assume), but I think we're all stuck in the "snap-shot" mode when it gets dark. Tripods (and even monopods) are out. They can be a pain to lug around plus I've seen lots of posts elsewhere mentioning that anyone with a tripod is assumed to be a professional and subject to some awful permit fee (and you do get approached and forced to stop using the tripod). (I've particularly heard that about Italy and France.) If you're using a P&S camera, I don't think there is much you can do (other than use a faster film). The first link in the first message leads to a site that (among other things) shows a way to hold the P&S camera steadier which will help. If you can lean against something to brace yourself, that will help. If you're using an SLR, you can put on a fast lens (which will help a lot). I think the best situation would be to have a camera with one (or more) of those IS (Image Stabilization) lenses. I know Canon has some. Nikon may also. (I've got a Sony Hi-8 camcorder with IS and can vouch for IS on it.) I believe though that IS lenses cost you out the wahzoo plus I don't know how well autofocus works in the dark. (My SLRs are manual focus.) You can also take one of those mini-tripods and use them sometimes. They only stand 6 or 8 inches tall so you (obviously) have to place them someplace other than the ground. I tried some night shots from our hotel in Assisi using a minitripod. Bad bad bad. It was so dark that the exposure took quite a while (as in over 10 seconds). With color films, you start to get reciprocity color shifts on long exposures. The colors weren't good and (more importantly) the pictures weren't sharp as I was shooting at 210mm with a relatively heavy zoom lens and the wind was blowing. Clearly even having a mini-tripod won't solve all the world's problems .

Again, Trojan, sorry to hear about the pictures. I hope the reprints come out better (much better).

Mike

[This message has been edited by Michael Williamson (edited March 13, 2001).]

Hi everyone
Mike Williamson gives some excellent advise. He must be a professional.
I whole heartedly agree in the practice with your camera, comment. After all, practice film and processing is cheap compaired to the loss of your treasured photo memories of a long awaited trip of a lifetime.
Check your cameras!! Alot of P&S and even some automatics only have settings for two speeds of film. Stick with those speeds.If yours has more, only buy the speed film your camera takes. If you accidentily shoot a roll of film(100asa) in a camera set for the wrong speed film(400asa). Don't panic, just make a note of what speed the camera was set on and send it along with that roll of film to a good processer. He can adjust the development time of the film so all is not lost for that roll. Just don't make a habit of it.
Leanna something came to mind while reading your post about blurry focus. Is your lens clean? This is something that happened to me. Diving a wreck off the coast of the Bahamas. I used my underwater camera from the boat to photograph a dolphin jumping in the water. When I got the print back there was the prettiest water drop on the lens that could be seen on the print.
Please don't just grab something and start rubbing on the lens. THEY SCRATCH VERY VERY EASY. That will ruin more than just one picture. You can buy special kits for cleaning lens. Or go to your eye doctor and get a eye glass cloth for cleaning glasses.
A rule of thumb for the speed of film is. The more light you have, the less speed you need.
You might even concider finding one mediun range speed of film your camera takes and only use that speed. Practice with that speed under all lighting conditions to find what the limitations are for your camera to still take good pictures.
MikeM

Hi all....you are all amazing. Thank you for your considerate and helpful replies!!! I just wish I was more worth your effort in the fact.....that I think Im hopeless here!!!

However, lets see...Im afraid I have done more wrong things than right..but I will correct many of them. I tend to take the film w/ me on the trip in my carry on and then toss them in my suitcase as I shoot them where they stay till Im home. I will not do that any more but will carry them home in my carry on as well. This lighter xray maybe will help them. As I take 20-25 rolls on a 3 week vacation I have never invested in a special xray proof case and probably wont for this trip either although maybe I will in the future.

I think for E I will use only 200 and not worry about taking any pics in the tombs. I understand they just "permit" you to death anyway...and besides I always buy postcards and add those to my albums...so this way I can support the local business. I know I know...you are all just shaking your heads at that confession!! POSTCARDS!!!!!

I do have a special cloth and did clean the lens quite often on that other Fuji but I think it just had to many choices for me..and I never knew which to do...I think this new camera is more idiot proof and better for me.

I am taking a roll of film at this very minute and will have it developed before I leave so I will know how things work. I have, up to now use Kirkland Film from Cosco but will use Kodak on this trip!!!

I did not use the Panorama that much and that will probably remain a truism. Also I read some pointers on that one web page, and I think that hint about how to hold a camera is FANTASTIC. I will use that both hands Lshape form from now on...as I think w/ age I shake a bit more and that has not helped!!! Big sigh!!!

Ok everyone again I thank you..and as soon as I finish this roll and get it developed I'll let you know how these turn out!!!