quote:

Originally posted by FLYING KIWI:
I think many of us have been guilty as youngsters of over indulging. Most eventually grow out of it. It is the fact that others are deemed to be responsible for our actions that I think is unreasonable. That surely is why we have an age limit on drinking - people should be old enough to be responsible for their own actions at that age.

Yes I agree, in this country you have to be 18 years of age to drink alcohol which is the age deemed to be an adult. Geez maybe as so called adults we can blame others because we over eat, or don't mind our children properly, or drive too fast etc. etc. etc. I am tired of the finger pointing outwards & not inwards. Responsibility for ones own actions is part of being an adult - I thought.

quote:

Originally posted by BrendaC:
FK, I absolutely agree with you that everyone should be responsible for their own actions, and that we all understand that actions have consequences, but in the specific issue we're discussing surely the bar-tender or party host is in some way complicit in the cause of those actions, no? That's all our legislation means, not that others are responsible for our actions but that others need to take care not to aid and abet. I know it sounds like that state everyone seems to dread so much, the nanny state, but sometimes we do have to be protected from our own foolishness. People who have had a great deal to drink do not always make the best judgments and others have to do it for them for the good and safety of all.

Perhaps we'll have to agree to disagree on this matter.

Brenda

I really wasn't disagreeing with you Brenda, just stating that there is a heavy weight on the bartender to make sure that guests do not over indulge - fair enough, but it should not take away the responsibility of the guest to not get drunk. The fines/punishment for the bartender/establishment are I believe disproportionate to the crime and I believe the onus should be more on the patron than the bartender/establishment. It is often pretty difficult to keep an eye on every patron - especially when someone else is buying the drinks.

quote:

Originally posted by BrendaC:
Am I not allowed an opinion, along with everyone else ?
Brenda

Brenda ~ I value your opinions and I am sorry that I have misunderstood you.

dalene: I'm fine. I gather everyone thought I must be talking about Uni students but I adored the majority of my students for the most part as if they were all my own. That's the problem, you become attached and then you have to let them go. It's still an age/stage group I get on best with.

I was just puzzled by the assumption I guess. Believe me I do understand your concerns with your boys, dalene, but the best kids are the ones whose parents have made it so, and you sound as if you have indeed made it so. This is probably one of those stereotypes but one young man I had some years ago was an exchange student from Australia, a most charming young man. He almost never came to class or read the works under discussion because, as he told me, "yesterday was his birthday and he got wasted, and couldn't get up in time." The funny thing was that he told me this every time he did manage to make a class and I finally pointed out that even though he was from the Southern hemisphere, surely people got born on only one day of the year there as well. Honestly, he was such a charmer, you just had to forgive him, and in the finish, he buckled down and did quite well. Oh, the memories. He's probably now a TD for TT.

Brenda

quote:

Originally posted by FLYING KIWI:

quote:

Originally posted by BrendaC:
FK, I absolutely agree with you that everyone should be responsible for their own actions, and that we all understand that actions have consequences, but in the specific issue we're discussing surely the bar-tender or party host is in some way complicit in the cause of those actions, no? That's all our legislation means, not that others are responsible for our actions but that others need to take care not to aid and abet. I know it sounds like that state everyone seems to dread so much, the nanny state, but sometimes we do have to be protected from our own foolishness. People who have had a great deal to drink do not always make the best judgments and others have to do it for them for the good and safety of all.

Perhaps we'll have to agree to disagree on this matter.

Brenda

I really wasn't disagreeing with you Brenda, just stating that there is a heavy weight on the bartender to make sure that guests do not over indulge - fair enough, but it should not take away the responsibility of the guest to not get drunk. The fines/punishment for the bartender/establishment are I believe disproportionate to the crime and I believe the onus should be more on the patron than the bartender/establishment. It is often pretty difficult to keep an eye on every patron - especially when someone else is buying the drinks.

Yes, I see what you're saying, FK, and it makes a lot of sense. I don't actually know whether the fines or punishment are proportional or the same here. I suspect, but this is only a supposition, that it is much heavier for the perpetrator. And I agree that it's a great responsibility on the bartender or host to keep an eye on everyone. It did actually happen to us once at a dinner party and a guest who managed to put away too much scotch followed by too much wine and brandy following dinner. It was a colleague I was very fond of and never knew that he was an alcoholic. When he absolutely refused to allow his wife to drive (and they were in a another town, so had to take a highway) I realized that he had taken whatever was on offer and we shouldn't have been so generous.

Believe me, I was a nervous wreck and feeling very responsible, and he called the next day and apologized for his behaviour etc. But, it sure shook me up, I'll tell you and it later came out that he was an alcoholic but after a much worse incident (you don't want to know) went to AA, and he's now dry. So, lesson learned about what I offer and how much even though I keep telling myself we are all adults in this room.

Brenda

This message has been edited. Last edited by: BrendaC,

quote:

Responsibility for ones own actions is part of being an adult - I thought.

If only, Dimpz, one could be sure of everyone "growing up" and behaving responsibly like an adult. As sociologists have reported, there seems to be a trend of late of peter pans who don't want to grow up.

Brenda

quote:

Originally posted by Mallee:

quote:

Originally posted by BrendaC:
...Mallee, I was just curious why you were pitying me and couldn't seem to find a reason in anything I had written to engender that pity? Brenda

There wasn't anything in the text, Brenda. My imagination created scenarios starring a Prof. Eng. Lit. (ret.) and I wrote and posted thoughtlessly. Again.

Oh well, Mallee, if you want scenarios to ponder . . . . I could provide a choice few (not about me, of course)

Brenda

We have just opened a bottle of our excellent white wines: Stellenbosch Spier Discover 2007. Cheers B&B'ers!

dalene: enjoy and lift a glass for me.

Brenda

Hubby and I went out for a steak tonight. What I've seen there made my blood boil: A father sitting in the bar drinking and his son, a little boy about 9 or 10 years old, waiting for him outside with short pants on a cold Winter night sleeping with his head on his arms. I asked the staff about it who told me that the father sometimes sit in the bar drinking until the morning hours and they have to cover the boy with a blanket. I turned around to march into the bar but my husband stopped me. He knew there would be a scene. But I will look into this matter. That's for sure.

Wowza, dalene, that would have brought me back into the place for sure. It reminds me of all those old stories about kids waiting outside pubs for their Dads or Mums. I thought that only happened in times gone by.

Brenda

quote:

It reminds me of all those old stories about kids waiting outside pubs for their Dads or Mums. I thought that only happened in times gone by.

Brenda,

Nothing has really changed unfortunately - instead of waiting outside for parents in pubs they now wait home alone for parents in clubs
(and then bring up their own children the same way).

From my experience... (just got back from the 21 day European Break - Breakaway tour), Our tour director was awesome. He was very informative, upon entering a new country, he would provide some commentary and information on the country, political, historical, economical, and cultural background. He worked very hard making sure everyone on the tour was happy even when things were not under his power (i.e. room allocations, bad service, etc) he would try to ensure everyone on the tour was happy. He also went out of his way to show us around, show us cool things to check out, spent time with the tour members, showing us nice bars, or hang outs, shopping, atms, anything we needed, he was there to help and make our tour experience the best, enjoyable, and carefree experience we could have.

as far as his role, I think he took on a lot more then what is required of him, but it seems like that was the type of guy he was. He worked very hard to make sure everyone was happy and enjoying themselves. he even helped the porters deliver bags to rooms to make sure everyone had their baggage in time so we could freshen up and get ready for dinners or excursions...

cisobe ~ He sounds like a wonderful guy, as are most TD's. After such wonderful praise you should publish his name.

Our TD on the Britania was Mel.In my view; he is one of the best TD. his knowledge about British history was fantastic. In all the following;
1.History.
2.Friendly.
3.Helpfulnes.
4.Patience.( that he learned from touring with me. )
5.Getting everything organise and done on time.
6.His sence of humour.
7.Thougtfulnes.
8.Always there for us.
9.
10
11.(Sorry Mel.) Sweetnes.