I have been looking at cost of the tours to Australia & New Zealand and am a little surprised by their cost. They seem much more expensive than the European tours (even after I exclude the air fare). Not only are the Australian and New Zealand Tours much more expensive, but they don’t seem to include as much.

For example, when I compare “ The Great Australian and New Zealand Adventure” and “Grand European” I note the following:

The Great Australian and New Zealand Adventure - $7725 Canadian (land only)
- 26 days (only 25 when you consider one day is lost over the international date line)
- includes only three dinners
- has 4 full days at leisure (i.e. if I want to anything it will cost me more)

Grand European - $4799 Canadian (land only)
- 24 days (no international date line)
- 12 included dinners
- only one full day at leisure

As I see it the Australian and New Zealand is 61% more expensive and does not include as much. Am I missing something here or are things just that much more expensive in Australian and New Zealand?

quote:

Originally posted by joe d:
I have been looking at cost of the tours to Australia & New Zealand and am a little surprised by their cost. They seem much more expensive than the European tours (even after I exclude the air fare). Not only are the Australian and New Zealand Tours much more expensive, but they don’t seem to include as much.

For example, when I compare “ The Great Australian and New Zealand Adventure” and “Grand European” I note the following:

The Great Australian and New Zealand Adventure - $7725 Canadian (land only)
- 26 days (only 25 when you consider one day is lost over the international date line)
- includes only three dinners
- has 4 full days at leisure (i.e. if I want to anything it will cost me more)

Grand European - $4799 Canadian (land only)
- 24 days (no international date line)
- 12 included dinners
- only one full day at leisure

As I see it the Australian and New Zealand is 61% more expensive and does not include as much. Am I missing something here or are things just that much more expensive in Australian and New Zealand?

Joe, I noticed that as well. Is it because travel within Australia is not always by coach and often by air between cities? At least, that's what I gather from the little plane connecting some of the places to be visited on the tour itinerary, and this is part of the "land" costs. I think we (well, I do at any rate) forget the size of Australia. It's a huge continent and some of the tours cover great distances. Just a thought.

BrendaC
I don't believe that the difference is the in- country flights. The prices I quoted were land only. As I read the brochure, if you purchase land only you also have to purchase all the connecting flights.

quote:

Originally posted by joe d:
BrendaC
I don't believe that the difference is the in- country flights. The prices I quoted were land only. As I read the brochure, if you purchase land only you also have to purchase all the connecting flights.

I didn't see that on the website, Joe, that does make an enormous difference. I just assumed "land" meant once you were there--silly me--never assume, right?

Joe d, when we travel to Europe, we find it quite expensive in comparison with what are the prices and general living costs in main Australian cities, such as Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane or Adelaide. We noticed that the actual "figures" are similar, but when you add their currency to the figure, that's what breaks the bank for us. E.g a cappuccino costing 3 AUD here is 3E in mainland Europe, 3GBP in UK etc. Yet 1E = 1.69AUD and 1GBP= 2.50AUD (and 1CAD= 1.17AUD, 1USD= 1.31AUD). A simple Hungry Jack's (Burger King) lunch of a hamburger, chips, coke is AUD6-7 for what is GBP6-7 in UK; this makes it 2.5x as expensive for us over there.
Our hotel accommodation costs are comparable or cheaper than in Europe, food is cheaper. Where the costs would go up noticeably is in the intercity transport because of the distances between Australian cities and the various tourist regions. Australia is roughly 80% the size of Canada and there is a lot of empty space between the cities, which is not always practical to cover by a bus. E.g. Melbourne to Sydney by road is 900km. Between Melbourne and Brisbane, going the shortest - inland -route is 1700km, about 1070miles. This makes it necessary to fly between numbers of the places.
Food in the more remote tourist destinations would be naturally dearer because everything has to be transported there over large distances. When you travel in Europe, particularly on a regional tour, you do not clock-up the mileage in the same way as you do in here. Even the Grand European is quite practical all done travelling by bus. I haven't see the itinerary of the Australian & NZ tour, but the "land costs" will include air travel between NZ and Australia and all the air transfers between the various cities/tourist regions here. That all is included in the tour cost under the "land cost" term.

quote:

I didn't see that on the website

I am looking at the brochure. You really have to look at the fine print carefully. For example, the air fare for "The Great Australian and New Zealand Adventure" is $3170, but that is from Vancouver (in all the other brochures the air fare is from Toronto). They really don't make it easy for us. The more I look into this the more frustrated I get.

"I haven't see the itinerary of the Australian & NZ tour, but the "land costs" will include air travel between NZ and Australia and all the air transfers between the various cities/tourist regions here" - australena

As far as I can tell the land costs do not include the in-country flights. The brochure seems pretty clear in this regard. I separated the air out to make the comparison fair.

As you indicated I had always thought that my fellow travellors from Australia found Europe expensive, that is why I was so surprised at the cost of these tours. Perhaps it is just the cost of the tours, but as I said earlier they do not seem to include as much as the European tours.

I am beginning to think that I should consider other alternatives such as fly and drive. The only problem with that is that I really don't feel that I have enough time to plan such a trip. I really like coach travel because it allows me to travel a lot more often.

Another, alternative is a cruise. We did that in South America earlier this year as we could not find a tour that met our needs.

There are new cruises planned covering Australian and New Zealand ports. As this is a TT site, we can't discuss them here, but if you wish, you can send me a PM about it, Joe.
I found the tour on Pavlus site. You are right, the tour is without air. I calculated the air travel as specified by the tour itinerary, within Australia and new Zealand, exluding the jump over the Pacific. It is 6160miles.

quote:

Originally posted by joe d:
I have been looking at cost of the tours to Australia & New Zealand and am a little surprised by their cost. They seem much more expensive than the European tours (even after I exclude the air fare). Not only are the Australian and New Zealand Tours much more expensive, but they don’t seem to include as much.

For example, when I compare “ The Great Australian and New Zealand Adventure” and “Grand European” I note the following:

The Great Australian and New Zealand Adventure - $7725 Canadian (land only)
- 26 days (only 25 when you consider one day is lost over the international date line)
- includes only three dinners
- has 4 full days at leisure (i.e. if I want to anything it will cost me more)

Grand European - $4799 Canadian (land only)
- 24 days (no international date line)
- 12 included dinners
- only one full day at leisure

As I see it the Australian and New Zealand is 61% more expensive and does not include as much. Am I missing something here or are things just that much more expensive in Australian and New Zealand?

joe d, I'm heading to Canada in 4 weeks time. While there, I'm doing a 'mini' 3 night coach tour. It's costing me CAD$1,501.00 and that is not the most expensive hotel option. $500.00 a night, which includes 1 breakfast, 2 lunches & 1 dinner.
The tour you mention will cost CAD$309.00 a night. Okay, + inland airfares you say. I don't know. To my way of thinking "Land only" means the cost of getting from arrival point in country to departure point.
I guess what I'm saying is that for all of us from Australia & New Zealand & Canada & the USA, travelling to Europe is a lot cheaper, than travelling to Australia, New Zealand, Canada & the USA.

quote:

australena

Thanks for the offer but most of the cruise lines have my e-mail address and send me lots of info, inluding info on Australia. I prefer coach tours and generally try to find one of them but I have already done one cruise this year and am doing another in October.

Joe: There is more flying on the Australian/New Zealand tours than coach travel. In addition, several of the optionals are scenic flights which can cost over $300 per person. It is an expensive tour, but you are covering a lot of distance.

joe d,
Friends of ours did a half land, half cruise of Australia and New Zealand and were a bit disappointed. It is hard to be disappointed with the luxury of a cruise, but they did not see very much of Australia. They did fly to the outback, but for example in Melbourne, they could not go to Phillips Island to see the little penguins because that is evening and it is back to the ship at that time.
We did a G tour of OZ and NZ buying land and air. It was expensive, but had a lot included. From the time I left Michigan and returned 30 days later, we took off and landed 18 times not including the helicopter and balloon rides in the Outback. I don't know if G's price for land only included internal flights. I would look into it. I think most if not all on our tour bought the entire package. All but two couples were on the same Quantas flight from LA. One couple went a day early and another several days early and stopped in Fuji.
Before choosing I did a spreadsheet comparing cost with Trafalgar, G, GC and V and they all seem to come out about the same price per day. My final decision was based on itinerary. Trafalgar and G were the only two who went to Kakadu National Park, but G went further north and west at the time. I am not sure my tour is offered anymore.
It was great, but it was the most expensive tour we have taken, but then it was also the longest.

suegreg: Our itineray was not as actually published by TT. I remember we had to fly North to Brisbane, which was not on the itinerary, in order to fly South again, because there was no direct flight available for our route. We counted ten or eleven flights altogether in an 18 day period. Whew! And that doesn't even compare to your 18!

quote:

Originally posted by joe d:

quote:

australena

Thanks for the offer but most of the cruise lines have my e-mail address and send me lots of info, inluding info on Australia. I prefer coach tours and generally try to find one of them but I have already done one cruise this year and am doing another in October.

Another cruise lover, I see. I am on a mailing list of some of the companies too. Happy cruising and happy travels overall, Joe d!
I hope you do make it to Australia and New Zealand. I am sure you will like it very much. The high land costs are a puzzle to me, with the exception of the remote area resorts, such as Uluru(Ayers Rock), Kakadu NP and such. There the tourists, local and foreign alike, are the tourist industry's sitting ducks. It seems as if everyone is out to get them money-wise. In our large cities, the hotels and optionals providers have a healthy competition, not a monopoly. The cost of living here is lower than in many (West)European countries or North America.

When I did the Australia, New Zealand trip, I had 35 flights in total, including the one from Vancouver to Sydney and return. I vowed when I got back that I would never get on a plane again. I broke the vow, one year later and still am breaking the vow. Travel is the spice of life. It opens many doors.